Hindsight. It’s a bitch. It’s also bitter and hypothetical at times, so take these particular musings in that context. It’s a “what could’a been”.
Jack Layton would have possibly been Prime Minister last year, had a sweeping campaign of election fraud with voter suppression not taken place across the country.
Take a moment to let these results sink in. Imagine what could have happened from the honest result of Canada’s electorate (using our effed-up-and-ancient First Past the Post electoral system). The NDP were projected to win over 100 seats, while the Conservatives were to win fewer seats than a majority. Had the Liberals (and Greens) finally decided that Canadians had had enough of a Harper minority government, they may have formed the fabled coalition with the NDP. Layton, having the party with the most seats in the majority coalition, would have been PM.
Was the state funeral for Layton granted to ease PM Harper’s conscience, since Layton could have rightfully been the Prime Minister at the time of his death last year?
—
Hat tip to Rabble for the idea.
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Harper has learned well from George W. Bush, it would seem. But if you had proportional representation, you’d have the NDP/Liberal coalition government anyway. I wish all of you in Canada good luck, because you’ll need with your horrid Conservative government.
With PR, it’s less likely the Conservatives would have tried the sort of voter suppression that went on. If they had, and we’d got the coalition majority instead, it seems unlikely to me that there would be such an outcry over the rampant fraud as there is now. That thought worries me. I’d always assumed, until recently, that Elections Canada would vigorously prosecute Elections Act violations, since even signs being knocked over get talked about lots on news and radio shows. What a farce!
Would the Liberals have joined a coalition, or would they have supported Harper on the first confidence vote? We will never know for sure, but we do know what their voters wanted. On April 28 and 29, 2011, after the Liberals had slipped to third place in the polls, Angus Reid asked how voters would feel about various scenarios. On “The Conservatives win more seats than any other single party, but the Liberals and the NDP have more combined seats than the Conservatives. The Liberals and the NDP form a coalition government” they found 78% of Liberal voters liked it, 17% did not, and 5% were not sure. On “The Conservatives win more seats than any other single party, and form a minority government’ they found only 20% of Liberals liked it, while 76% did not. Of all voters planning to vote Liberal, only 13% said they would never consider voting NDP.
Would Ignatieff have accepted his voters’ wishes? He had spent the campaign saying “you’re looking at the guy who turned down the last coalition. I could be standing here as prime minister of Canada. I turned it down.” (Did this help scare the 17% of his voters away from a coalition with the NDP?) However, on this scenario he would have lost his own seat. So Ignatieff would have resigned.
The coalition Canada almost had:
http://wilfday.blogspot.ca/2011/08/coalition-canada-almost-had.html
Thanks for that info.
ADDED:
Amazing! Compare those to LaRue’s findings of the Robocalls effect; they are damn near identical. On his numbers, I give one more from the NDP to the Conservatives (Regina Lumsden Lake Centre which he mistakenly misclassified in my opinion, and he mentioned to me he had second thoughts about.)
Wow…..you have really gone off the deep end this time !!
If you could get your head outta your ass for a few minutes you might notice that the world, in large part, has moved on. The Robocon/Robocall tempest in a teapot has fallen off the radar, at least for sensible people. It’s turned into a yawner…to which most grown-ups would say….What are you talkin’ about ???
Most legimate journalists are moving on the upcoming budget and any number of other things…..you might think you are a “jounalist” but in reality you are just another left wing extremist with an axe to grind, a computer and access to the internet and a bad case of conspiracy theory diarrhea.
I really think your friends should arrange an intervention on your behalf and try and bring you back from the edge of the ledge.
Have a Sanka for Christ sake !!
For me… whatever works to you keep you fools from getting your hands on power and screwing this country up beyond all hope !!
As an aside…. you should probably volunteer to help out the Obama re-elction campaign I think they could use you. It seems he’s just the kind of idiot you could really get behind !!
It’s comments like this that I enjoy coming back to years later to see how correct I’ve been, and how deluded trolls are.
Maybe you also missed the disclaimer at the top that points out this is talking hypothetically, and you should use your imagination. I didn’t mean you should imagine I’ve gone off the deep end, sheesh, constrain your imagination to the topic at hand.
I was expecting some NDPers to comment, possibly angrily, but I wasn’t expecting trolls to outnumber them.
**rolls eyes**
It’s a bit thick to think that this whole affair cost the NDP the chance to form a government.
Was it ridiculous? Probably. Did it cost Layton the PM position? Unequivocally no.
Read the research around the robocalls’ effects. You don’t have the full picture yet, but people who’ve researched it have a better idea, and it’s not pretty. Elections Canada must know this too, but their cloak of secrecy is keeping most of the public in the dark about the seriousness.
http://unfuckwithable.ca/post/19739222778
Also, maybe you missed the graph at the top of this post. The graph maker predicted the outcome of the recent Danforth byelection too, by the way.
http://unfuckwithable.ca/post/19616208670
He’s clearly serious about his work, and although it’s hypothetical at this point in time (and can never be confirmed with great certainty what exactly would have happened without the robocalling), it’s got research to back the claim. Regardless of the seat count, the election was still heavily tainted by widespread fraud, enabled through technologies not envisioned when the Act was written. Those technologies didn’t exist when most Canadians grew a sense of what to expect from parties during election campaigns.
What does it mean to have “thick” dreams and ideas anyway? I like meaty ideas personally, and it sure made a few people think/gnash their teeth.
There’s the edge of insanity, then there’s the abyss that you’ve fallen into. The BlocNDP managed as well as they did because of Quebeckers brilliant stratagy of voting for phantom candidates. Candidates with no more allegience other than offer up their names for the fabled $2.25 taxpayers expense vote. The simple fact that Dipps were ignored in the Rest Of Canada should be a definite clue. Already Dipps are losing ground in Quebec… the party’s over and it ain’t comin’ back.
E Jack U Layton was the benificiary of Quebec’s stupidity, nothing more. Over 50% of the peoples of Alberta, Manitoba and even SASKATCHEWAN voted Conservative. Take that Wheat Board supporters… THAT’S a mandate!
As for your despised “effed-up-and-ancient First Past the Post electoral system” I note you have absolutely NO QUALMS about using it in your own favour… seeing that 42.9% of Quebeckers gave the NDP 79% of Quebec seats (59 of 75). Or, is that to mathematically obvious. Proportionate representation is always the battle cry of the marginal.
E Jack’s funeral was an excuse to get the hipster Toronto leftists mugs in front of the cameras, giving their all in their best Princess Di outpouring of grief. Trust me, it wasn’t a big deal with the public… although you wouldn’t know it via the CBC!!!
And still not a single disenfranchised voter.
Yeah, not a “single” one. Thousands. Tens of thousands were robocalled illegally, more likely.
I’m not reading your comments completely so long as you start them with “edge of insanity”. Clearly you wouldn’t be so stupid as to bother talking with someone who is insane on the Internet, so you lose your case right there.
Yup, not a single one disenfranchised. I guess if you include those that sign on-line petitions you could get your numbers up :) :) :) !!!
By saying “I’m not reading your comments completely…” it makes it a lot easier to ignore basic facts, doesn’t it? I mean no need to admit the truth when you can just pretend not to read them!
Hey, I heard Yukoners got Bobocalled too… “Sylvie Leonard is one of several people who say they received a phone call on the day of the election… Bob Nardi says he also received a call telling him his local polling station had moved…” http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/story/2012/03/21/north-yukon-election-robocalls.html
Good ol’ CBC… who are these folk? Sylvie Leonard – Yukon Area Council for Public Service Alliance of Canada Youth Committee and is married to Jean-François Des Lauriers who ran as a NDP Yukon candidate and is PSAC’s Regional Executive Vice-President for the North. While Bob Nardi is Communications Officer Yukon Employees Union. Who both happen to remember a phone call 10 months later.
No ulterior motives there tho’…. no sireeeee.
As for disinformation, what does it say about the Main Stream Media’s silence about a party leader who would be dead before ever sitting in the House? A party leader who, as you acknowledge, could theoretically have been our Prime Minister? Replaced by a new Prime Minister no one voted for as such?
Maybe E Jack was bumped off by Boob Rae! Boob’s a deep undercover Conservative tasked with destroying ANY credibility of the Lieberals and Dipps….. dontcha’ know!
redjefff says:
As for disinformation, what does it say about the Main Stream Media’s silence about a party leader who would be dead before ever sitting in the House?
An amazingly *under-reported* story, isn’t it? Not only did Layton bring down the government and force an election despite being offered more
budgetary incentives than he could normally have hoped for, he never revealed what type of cancer he came down with the second time…because he knew DAMN WELL it was terminal, and he would never survive to sit as Opposition leader. He campaigned under false pretenses, and the NDP helped cover it up while the Canadian news media looked the other way. Disgusting…
“campaigned under false pretenses”
That’s RICH, coming from a supporter of a party that literally campaigned under false pretenses.
Exactly Fred. The media’s refusal to say anything untoward Libs and Dipps in order to influence voting is one of the saddest indictments of urinalism in our time. EJack’s preoccupation with growing the Dipp brand at the expense of Dipp principles was a dismal failure except for the gathering of those in Quebec who had erstwhile followed Canada’s other political dead end known as the Bloc!!!… the gullibility of whom is glaringly obvious in their electing “phantom candidates” with NO interest in their constituents.
Did you know that Toronto City council is erecting (pardon the pun) a plaque at 787 Dundas St West to commemorate the life of E Jack U Layton? Thats where E Jack got nicked at the Chinese Rub-N-Tug involving a 6′ topless masseuse errrrrr I mean where St. Jack was helping recently arrived immigrant 3rd world women achieve gainfull employment and Canadian work experience!!! Har har har!!!
One more thing…. ever wonder what the official cause of death was for St. Jack? Olivia has never released the info. In Toronto the answer is common knowledge.
Wow, lots of trolls here, vigorously saying “Look! Over there! Anywhere but at the massive election fraud!”
So if the current government wasn’t actually elected, I don’t see why anyone should pay attention to their legislation. So for instance, when they deprive unions of the right to strike, there’s no real reason the unions should treat this as actual law passed by an elected government because after all, it isn’t.
A lot of Canadians are going to get a Poli Sci 101 crash course, without ever attending a university. Legitimacy matters in politics.
A lot of Canadians are going to get a Poli Sci 101 crash course, without ever attending a university.
I highly doubt that, since Elections Canada investigated reports of possible election manipulation immediately after the election, and found no evidence of any individual election outcomes being altered in any way. They have already said the same about these latest (very conveniently timed) allegations.
Legitimacy matters in politics.
Yes. So does credibility, which you are rapidly losing with your irrational, over-the-top conspiracy theories. You already can forget about going into politics, sorry…
You’re forgetting that there’s evidence Fred from BC. Well, not “forgetting” so much as choosing to look in the opposite direction.
Purple Library Guy says:
Wow, lots of trolls here, vigorously saying “Look! Over there! Anywhere but at the massive election fraud!”
If you have information on a “massive election fraud” you should be contacting the RCMP, shouldn’t you?
If the RCMP doesn’t read the newspapers and investigate the crimes reported in them, what use is more people bothering them to do their jobs, going to help?
Joking about stolen elections! What’s next, will they joke about torture and racist murder? Oh wait! These scum-bags already do.
Contemptible trash. Soon their illegitimate reign will be at an end. Then we can fill up all the prisons they built with their cowardly asses.
thwap says:
Joking about stolen elections! What’s next, will they joke about torture and racist murder? Oh wait! These scum-bags already do.
Contemptible trash. Soon their illegitimate reign will be at an end. Then we can fill up all the prisons they built with their cowardly asses.
ply
“Stolen elections”?
“their illegitimate reign”?
You’re just as much of a wing-nut as the original poster.
You stupid dunce. Do you imagine that any of us care about your blatant lying about your party’s blatant criminality?
You’re contemptible political hacks with no honour and no creditbility.
Here’s an idea: Stop committing electoral fraud and maybe people will forgive you and BEGIN to take you seriously as human beings again.
In the meantime, fuck-off.
thwap says:
You stupid dunce. Do you imagine that any of us care about your blatant lying about your party’s blatant criminality?
What “lying” would that be, exactly? And what “criminality” is the Conservative Party currently engaged in?
(and if you don’t care, why are you so willing to make a fool of yourself over it?)
You’re contemptible political hacks with no honour and no creditbility.
Says the guy from the Liberal/NDP Party. :)
Here’s an idea: Stop committing electoral fraud and maybe people will forgive you and BEGIN to take you seriously as human beings again.
Here’s an idea: *prove* some electoral fraud before the investigations turn up nothing and show you to be just another knee-jerk reactionary moron trying desperately to score political points on behalf of his rapidly-crumbling party.
In the meantime, fuck-off.
Grow up, little guy. Such language may titillate teenagers, but serves no purpose here other than to make me laugh at you….
Fred it is really obvious that Thwap is correct and you are a stupid dunce.
I’ve provided the evidence many times if you do a google search for saskboy with the word “production” you will be able to hear the robocall that came from Guelph and you can read in newspapers how the Conservatives admitted the nunbers for those robocalls came from them.
Blind, or a dunce, which is it?
Funny thing Fred, as long as they don’t have to participate, Dipps are the loudest criers for civil discourse! E Jack’s “Letter to Canadians”, albeit written not by Jack but by Olivia and the NDPs governing body, was (obviously) not read by Manitoba’s Pat Martin, and even if it was, nor listened to.
Sorta’ like Diamond Dave Suzi-Q trying to muzzle the Senate’s inquiry concerning foreign interference in Canadian politics by using (yet another) on-line petition, hypocritically including a special box to check off if you are non-Canadian!!!! Alas the irony escapes them.
It’s tough being a professional victim when you keep having your welfare cheques cut!!!
Funny thing redjeff. Nobody does “victim” like the harpercons. As I tried to explain to you earlier, if you guys stopped committing electoral fraud other people wouldn’t think you were lying pieces of shit.
Do you see how that works?
Layton’s letter was written before the enormity of the fraud that stole the election was evident.
Stealing elections is bad redjeff. Torture is bad. Racism is bad. Economic incompetence is bad. Breaking treaties is bad.
All the stuff the Conservative Party of Canada and its douche-bag supporters embrace is bad.
You can lecture people on civil discourse AFTER you stop committing electoral fraud.
The fact that I even have to have this discussion with you is an indicator of how low your type of scum has brought Canadian politics. You don’t even recognize how scummy you are. It’s amazing.
Poor Thwap. Just to set you straight…..
1. “Layton’s Letter” wasn’t written by Layton but by Olivia Chow and the NDP head brass. They’ve already admitted to it. Seems you’re a teeny bit slow on the uptake as they confessed last year.
2. “Torture”? “racism”? Lovely phrases, tho’ meaningless, thrown out by people to stifle opposing viewpoints. The fact that you explain neither makes your use of the words just that little MORE shallower!
3. “Economic incompetence”? Haven’t you just described the Dipp fiscal policies?
4. “Breaking treaties”? Can you name one? Kyoto expired and was not renewed. Was that what you meant? Let me guess, foreign policy’s not one of your strong suits is it!
As for “stealing elections” although Saskboy couldn’t find an example of a single disenfranchised voter, perhaps you could given your most learned and erudite wisdom?
One verifiable (citation needed) name? Just one for me?
The rest of your comment I’ll use as an example of the lefts ‘tolerance’. It’s the Dipps ‘moral high road’ I admire most! Haha!
Poor Thwap, you’ve got ANOTHER 4 YEARS of this to look forward to… call me when you become relevant again!!!!! ;)
Treaties with the First Nations you ignorant piece of shit.
Even if Chow and others helped Layton write that letter it doesn’t alter the chronology of events, moron. The letter was written before the tsunami of complaints about voter suppression efforts. Confusing yourself within your world of lies I see.
Torture. link
Racism. link
I’ll stop right there because I just remembered that you’re shamelessly immune to facts and logic.
You’d drag us into war to find WMDs that didn’t exist, but you’re indifferent to a nation-wide scheme of voter suppression and electoral fraud.
One piece of important information for you: Nobody needs to prove that people didn’t vote (even though there’s evidence of that). All that’s needed is proof that there was a conspiracy to TRY to suppress the vote through fraud.
You apparently think this was all the work of Michael Sona. Have noo fear, the Conservative Party’s hand in this will be exposed and your government will fall and then we will do to you as you’ve been doing to us.
saskboy says:
You’re forgetting that there’s evidence Fred from BC. Well, not “forgetting” so much as choosing to look in the opposite direction.
“Evidence”, you say?
Please post it here, then. Not hearsay from other sources. Not your conjecture. Not your supposition. Not your theories. Not what you fervently *wish* to be true.
The “evidence” only, please. I’ll wait….
Why wait? Have you turned blue yet from holding your breath during your tantrum?
Listen to the recordings. See the Conservatives anonymously release contradictory robocall evidence to Ivison while Elections Canada releases their number of calls for the Guelph campaign specifically.
I said EVIDENCE. As in, EVIDENCE that the Conservative Party was directly involved. That the extent of whatever fraudulent calls may gave been made changed the outcome of the election. What you give me instead are a few ALLEGATIONS mixed in with just enough fact to sound plausible, but nothing that connects any of them.
“Pierre Poutine” made calls using RackNine (have you figured out what RackNine is, yet? You seemed quite confused earlier). The CEO of RackNine is the person who first tracked the IP address and alerted the authorities. The Conservative Party also used the services of RackNine.
SO WHAT??
What does this prove? It proves exactly nothing. These events are connected only in your little mind, and certainly go nowhere near making Jack Layton the Prime Minister of Canada (whoa!! Are you on drugs, or what?? Not even the NDP is trying to push that WHOPPER!!)
So once again: let’s see your EVIDENCE, please. Evidence that the Prime Minister’s Office was *directly involved* in this farce. Evidence that *so many voters* were hopelessly confused (you have, what…ONE person claiming this so far? And her credibility is very much at issue?) that the NDP were actually the winners of the election DESPITE ALL THE POLL NUMBERS TO THE CONTRARY –
(didn’t quite think this one through, did you?…;)
– and Jack Layton should have been named Prime Minister.
While you’re at it, alert the news media, Elections Canada, the RCMP and all the other political parties about your earth-shattering revelation.
I say again: you’re a NUT CASE. Stop wasting everyone’s time with your ridiculously far-fetched fantasies. Take your meds, son…
You Fred from BC, are the nut case, and your ramblings will stay here for people to gasp at for years to come. Since you’re ignoring the facts, evidence, whatever you want to deny they are, perhaps you should stop commenting in this thread since you’ve added nothing but your opinion, which is backed up with nothing other than claims that *I* need medication.
Hey, Saskboy, hang in there! Your Canadian trolls appear to be as blinded by ideology as right-wing trolls in the U.S. are. When right-wingers attack you — with personal insults rather than with anything resembling a fact — you know you are on to something.
I don’t know enough to comment on what Harper & Co. may or may not have done, but I do note those who pointed out that Bush & Co. stole the 2000 and 2004 U.S. elections received the same vituperation.
And those opposed to the unjustified Iraq war who were later vindicated by there being no WMD…
As hilarious as it is that you actually believe that (the UN weapons inspectors beg to differ, sorry), I’d be even more interested to hear what you think happened on 9/11. C’mon, don’t be shy…:)
Wait, what? This fruitcake thinks there were WMD in Iraq? Even George W. Bush admitted there weren’t any. What institution is this guy living in?
I’m not shy. 4 planes were hijacked, and the US was unable to stop it do to complacent police work, intelligence silos that didn’t share enough crucial information, and thousands of people died as a result of malicious acts by Saudi nationals trained by the Taliban.
Why? Do you have a crazy theory, unsupported by evidence?
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Purple Library Guy says:
Wait, what? This fruitcake thinks there were WMD in Iraq?
“This fruitcake” also happens to be backed up by the UN weapons inspectors themselves (remember how many TONS of chemicals they found and destroyed the first time around? Remember how many they said were *still missing* and unaccounted for when they went in the second time, and how they pleaded for “more time” to look for them? Remember how the UN had all the records of chemicals and other material sold to Iraq by the western nations to back up their claims?
(Canada sold Saddam Hussein ANTHRAX. You must be so proud…)
Anyone who believes that there *weren’t* any WMDs left in Iraq after the first Gulf War is an either an imbecile or a liar. Which are you?
Even George W. Bush admitted there weren’t any
He “admitted” no such thing. He said their information wasn’t up to par, and they couldn’t find them.
What institution is this guy living in?
Reality. You?
saskboy says:
I’m not shy. 4 planes were hijacked, and the US was unable to stop it do to complacent police work, intelligence silos that didn’t share enough crucial information, and thousands of people died as a result of malicious acts by Saudi nationals trained by the Taliban.
Wow. So you actually DO recognize and accept reality from time to time?
Good to know…
Why? Do you have a crazy theory, unsupported by evidence?
No, but I’m shocked that you don’t, given what you’ve posted so far about this “MASSIVE ELECTION FRAUD!!” “STOLEN ELECTION!!” “DEATH OF DEMOCRACY!!!” (etc).
(how’s that working out for you, anyway?…;)
The Christian Conservative, Blogging Tory, has been accused of being Pierre Poutine by LaRue. Layton would not have allowed this photo to take place had he known what Prescott is accused of having done http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-feYFglT-oNs/TlJfCISRSuI/AAAAAAAABRM/RGsJxPr-BOg/s1600/CC%2B%2526%2BJack.JPG
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