Dr. Goldenberg – God’s Role in Government -Liveblog

At the Filmpool, , where an overfull crowd has gathered for the Herman Lecture Series (UofR religious studies lecture).
7:06 introductions are done by Luther College and another. Luther HS students present for a class assignment.

What is religion and what does it have to do with governments around the world? Huge question. You can see details everywhere.

She’s from Ottawa now; was from the States. American education didn’t prepare her to know Ottawa was the capital.

Museum of Civilization discussed. An exhibit last year about God(s) “a users guide”.
Ottawa not first place for this. Brussels featured it first. Quebec was to have it in Quebec City next.
Some rooms had fake clouds. Clothing. Depiction of Basilica. Text.
“Religion is too many things to be confined to one definition.”
“A grid for interpreting the world.”
“Hard pressed to name anything religion is not,” she says.
Ad for exhibit was to depict different religion representing same base understanding of the world.

In late 1800s some theologians realized Christian understanding was not universal. They had other religions. “Primitive prototypes of Christianity.”

Religions being thought of as able to be studied scientifically, is flawed I think. Isolating variables as broad as a religion, is not practical for a study.

“Peace, happiness, and harmony” are what we all want from our religion, that’s generally understood in Canada. This idea may not be the case, says I.

There is a lot of fear. Fear was not mentioned at the museum. Circumcision was not even mentioned. “Anxiety” was present. Open questions to panelists were closed down after an open-mic question about Islam set organizers on edge.

7:29 I didn’t get a seat facing the screen, I’m literally well behind the speaker. Without a proper chair, my back is protesting my backless makeshift stool.

The lecture is at a pretty advanced level. I’m missing some points for live notes.

Religion, and states.
– courts
– concern religion guides states.

Switzerland concerned about Minarets in a poster. Suggests a burka clad woman is a sign aggressive Muslim men are “getting a foothold in Switzerland”. Populace shows signs of concern about Islam challenging the state’s monopoly on violence.

“Dichotomy”, “vestigial states”, some of the heavy words being tossed about in an admittedly “dry” portion of the lecture.

Biden Bible discussed.
Reference to God in swearing-in of politicians.

Canadian Constitution. “Supremacy of God and the rule of law.”
A punitively superior power remained over Canada, no longer the King/Queen.

-Vestigial states called religions…

image

-Druids
Druids became dis-empowered. “A past sovereignty”. Wicca and pagans help her thesis that religions are vestigial states.

Jewish history.
Christians have defined their dogma as “not Judaism”, which also helps to define Judaism as “not Christianity”.
She proposes each is a container, for states in waiting. “Containment and survival”.

Foreign powers have been the guarantors of Jewish statehood.
The Torah once served as the constitution of Jews in Palestine.

Review of Schwartz.

Canada is not a religion just because God is in the first line of our constitution.

Religion becomes useful after colonization, to both sides.

“There’s no religion in the bible, its all about government.” She sometimes tells her students, after having described several understandings of the passage “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s & God what is God’s.” Divine power different and subordinate to state power, but possibly challenging given some circumstances.

She says we are not served well by the Museum’s thesis. Instead we should open our eyes, as a street artist said on a modified poster ad. View the history of religions as past states.

Questions. Should we ask rude questions?

image

Goldenberg wants religion to be studied critically.

She went at least three times to the exhibit. Paid each time. Is concerned of the sheep-like model for the exhibit when the motivation of the exhibit is fear and it’s skirted.

Question. Example of a religion that gained statehood? Israel an obvious example. They gained sovereign violence last century.

I think Iran ’79 could be an example.

She mentions violence against children allowed for vestigial states to use; circumcision of boys and girls. FGM.

Tony Blair in Britain granting some power to some religions.

Sharia law not mentioned explicitly yet.

Labeling law as religious law makes people nervous. Many step away from debate.

Question: is Queen being head of state and Church of England an example of state using religion?

Yes, push me, pull me.

I ask a question if CFL and Disney are proto-states in their corporatehood. Many people describe the Riders as their religion. She says there is regulated male violence in it.
She needs to contemplate it more.
– Geno is an MLA. Szarka was on City Council. (Military day at last Rider game. Ticket featured soldiers in Afghanistan holding Rider flag. Hawks flew over stadium to launch the game.)

Shea M. brings up Quebec values charter maybe coming out of Conservative “nation in a nation” strategy of a few years ago.

Constitution question, I missed too much while writing and thinking.

A bloody foundational event. Freudian.

Italian constitution based on a right to work.

Cliff’s question she disagrees with. God granted laws? “Just think about law. ” It’s all government, there are no religious laws.

image

-Question: brings to mind women trapped in sanctuary in Regina church. Protected from state power, for now.

She answers: Churches have power. They can sometimes counter government. This is probably a good thing to not have power concentrated in one source.

Something that didn’t come up were healing circles. I brought it up afterward, and she hasn’t looked into them a great deal. She’s suspicious they are permitted because they could serve as a means to let people who treat women violently, get off without state punishment. Assuming healing circles work to rehabilitate, that might not be as bad if the result is former criminals who no longer want to hurt people.

ADDED:
The discussion after included some mention of FGM, and comparison to male GM, both violent acts against children, but permitted by the state and religious groups. We brought up how there were researchers asking women in countries where FGM is practiced what they thought of breast augmentation, and the women were horrified by the idea. The reverse was true in American women surveyed.

One response to “Dr. Goldenberg – God’s Role in Government -Liveblog

  1. Question. Example of a religion that gained statehood? Israel an obvious example. They gained sovereign violence last century.

    Pakistan would be a more accurate example as “Jewish” is more of an ethnicity than a religion. If one’s mother is Jewish, one becomes Jewish and is eligible for Israeli citizenship (provided one can prove that one’s mother is Jewish). Jews might be a racially diverse people yet they function as an ethnicity with a common imaginary history and heritage. Many atheist Jews still identify themselves as Jews and are fiercely tribal.

    Ignoring Islamic sharia was indeed disingenuous, I agree with you there.

    I ask a question if CFL and Disney are proto-states in their corporatehood.

    This is indeed a very good question Klein. I’ve always maintained that corporations are mini states embedded within states. A corporation is a class structure in motion within society, yet remains unregulated by societal conventions aimed at mitigating the effects of class imbalance. It is also rather feudal in character where the shareholders are freemen, the employees serfs (who contribute output yet have no say in the governance of the ”state”), the board the government.

    Switzerland concerned about Minarets in a poster. Suggests a burka clad woman is a sign aggressive Muslim men are “getting a foothold in Switzerland”. Populace shows signs of concern about Islam challenging the state’s monopoly on violence.

    Islamophobia is understandable in certain racially homogenous European countries. Their practices and customs (which are all too visible) would appear alien to the native populace. Yet I feel that Islamophobia is a displaced xenophobia, for it is not religion the native populace fears, but the alien cultures of the immigrants who happen to share a common religion in Islam. Culture always trumps religion, and many Muslims come from countries that are essentially low trust cultures. I would argue that this is a compelling reason to limit third world immigration into western countries.

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